Body Work

[speedaddict]

I'm in the process of doin some body work to my ranger. I may know about some things, but paint and body idk s***. I bought a mold on roll pan, and my fiberglass bed has a few cuts and scrapes lol. I sanded it down with fine grit paper, now i need to know if I should use fiberglass/resin to fix it or bondo? and what to mold the pan on with?

Now as for the paint, I'm wanting a flat black kinda primerish look. Since my wallet is dusty, im gonna rattlecan it myself until i can afford a better job. But how should i go about preparing it? And after i get the first coat should i go over it with a clear/gloss coat?

Surely there has to be someone out there that knows a lil bit bout body work and such lol. Hey D94R, maybe we can Create a place to talk solely about body work/paint and such! that would be pretty awesome:thanks: guys yall are awesome!!

[AJ_Fritz]

i'm for it if matt wants to hook up a forum for body and paint work. i know i could use some help in that department too ;)

they make some flat and semi gloss black paints in industial coatings that are relatively cheap that you can run through a sprayer. they are a one shot deal. i really like the semi gloss. flat just isnt as durable.

[speedaddict]

i'm for it if matt wants to hook up a forum for body and paint work. i know i could use some help in that department too ;)

they make some flat and semi gloss black paints in industial coatings that are relatively cheap that you can run through a sprayer. they are a one shot deal. i really like the semi gloss. flat just isnt as durable.

Sweet Hopefully new department!!

And ya, i was looking at the industrial coatings, but i dont have the equipment to spray. All i got is like a 5gal air comp, and i dont have a gun or anything. Hmmm...Maybe something i should invest in. I'd love to have Gloss jet black paint job, I just figured the flat would be easier all around. I'm mainly worried about tiger striping!!

[D94R]

I'm not totally sure I have that kind of control over the boards to add a forum, but I can check. I think Jess should be the one to OK it anyhow. AJ, I can make a thread in the Admin/Mod section and we can discuss it, but I don't see a problem with it really.

As far as simple paint jobs go, with black, no matter what the texture, I feel tiger striping will be a problem no matter what if you don't know how to lay the paint.

Harbor freight sells, oddly enough, a cheap and decent paint gun that will get you started to lay down your first coat. Don't expect miracles your first time though, the gun is only as good as the user.

I prefer a matte finish. With flat you see hand prints, smudges and stuff like that typically (though the reason for this I feel is that most people use a primer which obsorbs those fluids into it making it look like ****). With matte finish and a clear coat you get the flat look with the protection.

If you're going for gloss jet black, prepare to spend mucho time perfecting the body work. Black will show every flaw in your body, whether you can see it or not before spraying.

[speedaddict]

Thats why i was just gonna throw down a flat black coat and save some money. I got some buddys that are decent at painting and have the stuff. May just let them lay something down. All i gotta do is pay for the supplies.

Anyhow, what ya'll think bout the body work? fiberglass or bondo? I'm lost on that subject. Lol

[jfive]

You don't want to do a rattle can spray job. Its much better if you get a inexspensive High volume Low pressure paint gun thats for primer and base coat. You can paint it with a black primer and it will look like flat black paint. Rattle cans do not go far and cost alot. You can get a gun and paint for the same cost if not less and have a gun that will paint better than a paint tip rattle can and not have to worry about splatter. You can tape a paint brush to the gun and set it to the proper distance for painting and practice like you are painting to get used to holding the gun at the proper distance. Just go back and forth with the bristle of the brush just barely touching the paint. Bondo is also easier for small repairs and fiberglass is better for cracks and bigger fixes.

[D94R]

The proper fiberglass way would be to mold it in, using fiberglass mat or fibers and resin. This will give you the structural adherence you need, then use duraglass (bondo with fiberglass in it) to do any filling and forming to get a finer shape, then bondo to perfect it. Sanding of course all the layers as you go.

[Oldmandan]

I used to do bodywork/paint for a living when I was younger... Just post your questions I'll try to help...

Fiberglass pans IMO are junk, the right way to do it is get a steel one and weld it on. The fiberglass ones will "pop" after awhile and look like crap after a couple years.

Do not rattle can it! You'll just hate yourself for it later...

You're gonna need to guns. Find one with the biggest nozzle you can find and it'll be your primer gun, siphon feed or gravity whatever for primer.

Your paint gun is better if its gravity feed, easier to maneuver over hoods, roofs and around wheelwells.

You can generally find used guns for pretty cheap... look on craigslist

[jfive]

Back to the gun you want a high volume low pressure because you probubly don't have a 60 or 80 gal compressor, and thats what you need for regular paint guns. You need something bigger than a 5 gal compressor though. 17 or 20 gals is what i would use so you don't run out of air. You can get a gun for 50.00 and gravity feed is right. If you want a black paint job you need to do a light primer white/light grey. That way you know when you have enough coats on. Black is the hardest color to paint a car if you don't allready know that. I would suggest using a 1 step paint that you don't have to put a clear coat on. It will be a lot easier than a 2 step with a clear coat. Main difference is that you have to wax your car from time to time to protect the paint. Napa can mix the paint for you so you don't have to worry about buying the hardner and stuff. Just get it ready before you have it made, and hopefully your buddys have a paint booth or something so that you can do it in one night. Key is warm area, with no wind or dust. I'd invest in a cheap dual action sander to begin with and some sandpaper 100 to 150 grit. they remove paint faster than palm sander, and you won't take a couple of weeks to remove paint. I know some really good auto painters and have been researching painting for years cause i have a lot of vehicles and three need paint. When it comes to paint, you want to do it right so that you don't have to do it again. Most people do 8 coats for black paint.

[D94R]

Fiberglass pans IMO are junk, the right way to do it is get a steel one and weld it on. The fiberglass ones will "pop" after awhile and look like crap after a couple years.

Yeap... I had assumed he had a flair side fiberglass bed. If not, the above holds true.



Edited to fix. I was right, he mentions having a fiberglass bed at first.
If its a fiberglass roll pan then go what I said. If its a plastic mold in roll pan then I don't know the correct process.

[Oldmandan]

Yeap... I had assumed he had a flair side fiberglass bed. If not, the above holds true.

Yeah, I forgot about the stepside....

QUOTE=jfive;13978]Back to the gun you want a high volume low pressure because you probubly don't have a 60 or 80 gal compressor, and thats what you need for regular paint guns.[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree about the HVLP though, we used them because we had to (being in Cali and all). We did alot of custom stuff, and HVLP's were difficult at best for doing a fade or putting down a good coat of clear.

I don't know anyone that prefers them...

You can use a small compressor, you'll just have to wait for your compressor to catch up and use a gauge on your gun so you can watch your pressure. After you get good, you'll be able to hear when the pressure's too low. If you're compressors really small you can retard the paint so it takes longer to dry, but it'll give you more application time (this also makes the paint run easier too though). I've got a 20 gallon tank on my compressor and done several cars in my garage with it. Just plan ahead, very doable.

[Oldmandan]

Most people do 8 coats for black paint.

Jfive,
Don't listen to people when they tell you that kinda stuff, it just means they're blowing smoke or don't know what they're talking about.

30-40 years ago when Lacquers were the only thing available, it was true. But today, paint is totally different.

Lacquer has bad shrinkage issues, it never fully cures due to its make-up. It shrinks so bad that you had to apply "many" color coats because you had to color sand it that much to get it smooth and mirror-like. Over time if would continue to shrink so every couple years you had to colorsand it again to get it looking like a mirror again. This is why guys would apply several (15-25) coats, so they could keep colorsanding and buffing it to keep it nice.

Today, we have really good clears. The color coat is only there for coverage and you want it as thin as possible so You can get more clear on. So if you can get full color coat coverage in 2 coats with 2-3 coats of clear you're doing good. You'll probably find most painters looking to sand the orangepeel totally out may go for 4 coats just for some breathing room...

The main reason for keeping mils down (thickness) is chipping. The thinner the paint the stronger it is. All the OEMS apply it so thin you can't even colorsand it flat.

[D94R]

OMdan, what's your take on the new water based base/clear paint out now? Being phased in (read mandated) by California I wonder how it's going to hold up after years of sun and weather.

Some of the car shows I watch that used it said it had a learning curve, but laid down surprisingly well.

[Oldmandan]

OMdan, what's your take on the new water based base/clear paint out now? Being phased in (read mandated) by California I wonder how it's going to hold up after years of sun and weather.

Some of the car shows I watch that used it said it had a learning curve, but laid down surprisingly well.

I know it may seem new, but we've had it here since the mid-nineties. You can't tell the difference once it's on the car. The difference is on the mixing, application, spraying and bonding/adhesion side. It's really not a concern unless you need to use it. If you are going to use it, just ask your paint store guy to give you a run down on what how to apply it or what it can go over, and what can go over it. When in doubt... Seal it first...

I've never had any sun or weather issues with, but we don't get much weather either...

[jfive]

I think you may need to come out of your box alittle and except that things are changing constantly oldman. No pund intended. The switch to hvlp guns is happening, and for good reasons. My friend painted his whole care with a couple pints of paint and a hvlp gun an air dryer, and a 20 gal air comp. It looks really good, and it was his first paint job. there is alittle bit of orange peel but hardly noticeable unless really inspecting. Conventional guns are for people with years on there belt and money to throw. He is looking for a low cost paint job that will still look good. I found an article that you should read cause i feel you may be out of the loop, since all my research of painting has been recently, and this is just a little bit of what i've come across. There is a reason people charge thousands of dollars to paint cars they way your talking about, and why not just anyone can do it. Well here is the article and hope it can shed some light on this topic. http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_13113/automotive_hvlp_paint_sprayers___spray_guns.html

[Oldmandan]

I think you may need to come out of your box alittle and except that things are changing constantly oldman. No pund intended. The switch to hvlp guns is happening, and for good reasons. My friend painted his whole care with a couple pints of paint and a hvlp gun an air dryer[/url]

Wow a whole care!

Iv'e used a HVLP for many years, but the fact is it's difficult to do custom paint with one. They don't put out enough paint to do a proper fade, ie. flames... Which is why you'll find guys (who've tried) are against them. They do work fine if all you do is collision work... but I didn't.

Make up your mind, which is it. 8 coats of paint (which would be about a 1.5-2 gallons of paint depending on the car size) or 2 pints? Go blow smoke up someone elses butt guy.

I guess your buddy who's painted all of 1 car, makes you a pro. huh

[jfive]

Im not saying that you don't know what your talking about at all. I asked a professional painter out of cali just to see if i have been mistaken this whole time and he said learn to paint with a SATA hvlp gun. Just asked last night cause I don't want to blow smoke up anyones butt. Your missing one key point i think. He didn't say he wanted to do flames or faces or skull or even a fade job. Just wants to paint his truck one color. Ed Hubbs is who I asked if your wondering if I'm blowing smoke this time. And as far as the 8 coats go it was 5 coats black and 3 coats clear. My one friend i mentioned is just a case of a novice painter. I work next to a body shop and have talked to one of them alot, cause my wifes his cousin. I have two other friends that are painters in autobody shops. One spent thousands on school recently to become even better. I agree that to air brush on stuff you use a airbrush not a hvlp paint gun. I'm really not one of those know it alls with no proof people. I do exstensive research before opening my mouth, cause I hate being proven wrong. But if I'm wrong i do not mind admitting it, cause no bodys perfect. I was just hoping that you might do some research yourself and see what im talking about.

[D94R]

FWIW, I too thought that HVLP was the way to do it now. All the shows I've seen (Overhaulin, Powerblock on Spike, etc) all show using HVLP guns for painting... even when doing blending, fades, and flames etc.

[Oldmandan]

All the shows I've seen (Overhaulin, Powerblock on Spike, etc) all show using HVLP guns for painting... even when doing blending, fades, and flames etc.

How do you know the guns you saw were HVLP's?

There are huge fines for having an old gun in your shop In CA. The fire dept does check shops for compliance of all the OSHA regs. regularly. So "hopefully" nobody's dumb enough to use an old gun on TV if it was filmed in CA. I know alot of the shows were.

Keep in mind the stuff you see on TV, is only what they want you to see... I've been on a show before, and know many people that have been on several of the different shows. The viewer only gets to see what the producer, decides they get to see.

I'm not saying HVLP's are bad, I have one and it serves it's purpose well. I'm just saying "they ain't gods gift", and am just trying to point out why. For your color and clear coat you could pick up a Harbor Freight special that'll work fine since you won't be using it much. But see if you can pick up an old school devilbiss or Binks for your primer, used to be able to get a good used one for $50 bucks

[D94R]

How do you know the guns you saw were HVLP's?
Well, honestly I don't. I don't know much about painting. I thought HVLP's were a distinctive design. They are just a gravity fed gun right?

Aren't older guns siphon fed from under the gun?

I really don't know.

Keep in mind the stuff you see on TV, is only what they want you to see... I've been on a show before, and know many people that have been on several of the different shows. The viewer only gets to see what the producer, decides they get to see.


Yup, I know this as well, but since Overhauln is a CA show I just assumed the guns shown were HVLP, and correlated the gun design with that.

[speedaddict]

Not to change the subject, cuz this is really interesting since it does kinda pertain to me in a way, but it is a steel mold on roll pan. No go on the weld on, because It is a stepside fiberglass 99 bed. Ok back to it guys, im listening lol

[D94R]

LOL, it's your thread, keep us on topic :)

I'd suggest selling the pan and buying a fiberglass one. Or, fit it so its square with even gaps on each side and not mold it in at all. Won't look as clean, but you won't end up with cracks later. You could mold it from the backside with fiber mat and resin, fill in the gap with fiber fibers and resin, then finish with body filler, but I think eventually with body roll/flex it will still crack.

[speedaddict]

Ya i feel like im doomed either way. I'm Thinkin i might be able to put some strong tack welds on the back around the frame, and then like you said fiberglass the back and bodyfiller the front cracks.

No offense, but everyone has fleetside beds. I was tryin to be different yet again and stick with the stepside bed lol. Once again ford stuck it to me :hehe: O well I'll see what i can do. In the mean time, on to paint. Flat black is what im going with, and my buddy is gonna spray it on for me. Truck is sanded down already, I used 150gr and then went back over with 220gr i think? maybe 250? Either way, lol, Suppose to paint maybe this weekend if weather permit. Yeah were doing it in a paint booth, but when its cold and rainy out he said it makes it hard to paint(idk no expert). But the motor wont be goin for a couple of days so were gonna trailer the bed and body over there. :/

[Oldmandan]

You're right... Sorry about the hijack there.

It's 220... Your'e gonna see sandscratches thru the paint with that grit though. Go at least 350 and the paint will cover it. 500-600 wet would be best though.

D94R is right. It'll crack over time due to the chassis/bed flexing. You can try to brace it up really good to prevent the cracking but it may or may not work.

If you try to brace it, you'd want to brace it up only where the joint to the bed is with rivets and a stainless backing. We used to do this with the bosses fiberglass race car body, that needed major work after every race:shocked:

[speedaddict]

Ok, i'll go over it with 350+. I did not know that.

Instead of rivets im gonna use self tappin screws lol. But its really close on both sides it fits really really good. There's maybe 1/8th" on either side. I'm gonna do some trimming with the dremel tool and prolly just go with bondo on the face. I made up some braces at work today i think it will come out pretty good. I'll get some pics in a few mins.