T5 transfer cases [Archive] - Turbo Ranger Forums

SpeedNinja

08-28-2011, 04:04 PM

I'm looking to go the AWD route with my 2.3T stuff. I've got a World Class T5 as a starting point. I figure a decently built 7.5 rear and Dana28(or 30) front should hold together given the power distribution.

I searched and Googled real quick, but what would my best options be for sourcing a transfer case? Full time AWD would be ideal.

Thanks guys.

AirBender

08-28-2011, 06:05 PM

i know some of the jeeps used t5 trannies...

SpeedNinja

08-28-2011, 09:32 PM

Yeah, I was looking at that.

My dad said I might not be able to find a t-case that's full time AWD. If that's true I could either leave a single speed engaged all the time, or use a built A4LD with a t-case from a Ranger/Explorer. Wouldn't be manual, but should still be fun enough with AWD.

fordnut71

08-28-2011, 09:38 PM

Foolee

08-28-2011, 09:38 PM

97-03 F-150 4.2 V6 4x4 trans + a Explorer AWD Tcase + a 302 flywheel,adapter plate, and clutch setup = 2.3t/302 AWD ranger :)

SpeedNinja

08-29-2011, 12:22 AM

the aerostar uses an automatic awd transfercase. but its computer controlled so you need to wire up the computer will all the sensors inputs. but as far as i know it was only used on the 3.0l/4.0l a4ld, dont know if it could be used on the t5.
I'm trying to avoid a computer controlled one as any ECUs I'll need to use won't be able to run them. I guess the A4LD/Explorer t-case idea is out then... unless there's an older t-case that'll work.

97-03 F-150 4.2 V6 4x4 trans + a Explorer AWD Tcase + a 302 flywheel,adapter plate, and clutch setup = 2.3t/302 AWD mustang :)
Wouldn't it be easier to use a trans that bolts directly to the 2.3?

Foolee

08-29-2011, 10:18 AM

I'm trying to avoid a computer controlled one as any ECUs I'll need to use won't be able to run them. I guess the A4LD/Explorer t-case idea is out then... unless there's an older t-case that'll work.

Wouldn't it be easier to use a trans that bolts directly to the 2.3?

I'm pretty sure that the 2.3/3.0/4.0 all use a different T-case to the Explorer 5.0 AWD modle's. There was a guy on RPS that took a 5.0 w/ AWD from a explorer and had to use the manual T-case from that year and modle F-150. He swapped it in a automatic FX4 Ranger. The ranger case is different apparently? There was also a guy that did a 5spd conversion on his AWD explorer using that trans. Secondly the 4.2V6 trans is the HD version so it will hold alot more power in the long run.

Found the FX4 muhahaha, 302 Supercharged manual t-case 4x4 :) He has a build thread somewhere as well.
http://www.rangerpowersports.com/totm/2010/11/10/december-2008-totm/

AWD V8 to 4x4 Manual T-case V8 "5spd awd should work the other way around."
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166726

SpeedNinja

08-29-2011, 12:20 PM

Yeah, those are all the A4LD/4R44E/5R55E variant automatics and M5OD-R2 manuals. I could make an M5OD work if I find a way to move the shifter back some... but it would be easier to just go with an A4LD at that point.

Did a little more digging. Looks like the Jeep CJ-7s with a T5 used the Dana 300 t-case (1980-86)...
Dana 300

The Dana 300 uses a round bolt pattern and has a nearly flat oil pan. It is a heavy-duty, gear-driven transfer case with a 23-spline input shaft. The case is cast iron but the tail housing is aluminum. The ID number C300-15 is stamped on the case. The output for the front drive shaft is on the right side and the rear output in line with the input. Low range is 2.62:1.

One common modification of the Dana 300 is to add oil paddles to the main shaft to prevent oil starvation of the rear bearing.

The Dana 300 was used in Jeep CJs from 1980 to 1986. The 1980 factory original came with a shorter tail housing and a longer rear drive shaft. The Dana 300 should fit behind all TorqueCommand 4x4 transmissions.
So that won't work. I need the front drive shaft output on the left/driver side as the exhaust/turbo is on the right side.

Foolee

08-29-2011, 04:42 PM

explorer V8's use the 4R70-W not a A4LD/4R44E/5R55E. The 4R70-W like the M5OD-R2 uses the larger F-150 t-case pattern. The ranger case is not as strong, it also bolts up different. Advanced adapter used to make a adapter to mate a for T5 to a ford T-case using the tail shaft from a jeep T5. I still think the best bet is the M5OD-R2 4WD. Just my $0.02, hurst also makes a shifter for this transmission, with their shifter kit and one of their many different shifter I bet hurst makes one that would work for the swap. The M5OD-R2 also has a hydro clutch making the swap easier.

SpeedNinja

08-29-2011, 09:25 PM

Sorry, confused myself there for a minute on the Ranger and Explorer transmissions... :banghead:

Yeah, the M5OD-R2 4x4 would be the better way to go then. I've got a question on that, to try and avoid using adapters: Could I rebuild an R1 housing using R2 innards? If that's possible... then I'll have to work on moving the shifter back to where it should sit in a Mustang.

Foolee

08-29-2011, 09:53 PM

I would not think so, you cannot swap the top plate from the ranger R1 either. apparently sits further back that the R2 from the f-150. I suppose using a remote shift setup like the 05+mustang would be the best solution.

SpeedNinja

08-29-2011, 10:26 PM

So the R2 shifter is even further forward... and in innards don't swap, and the t-case won't bolt to an R1.... I'll definitely have to use a remote shift system and a motor-to-trans adapter (probably some input shaft machining too) if I go this route.
And there are no 4x4 R1 versions, correct?

Might start looking into an automatic trans to start with...

It's also been suggested to me to scavenge a 1980's AMC Eagle (AWD unibody). That would be in addition to the option that massaging some GMC Syclone parts like done in the Trepanier QuadraDeuce.

Foolee

08-30-2011, 01:09 AM

There is a R1 4x4 with a 2.3 bell but they are very rare. They are also not as strong as a R2. Maby you should go the Syclone route and keep it auto using the
Explorer AWD 4R70w. The 4R70w came in 96-99 3.8 v6 mustangs anyways so it would be alot less work getting one from a explorer to work.

SpeedNinja

08-30-2011, 01:28 AM

Isn't the 4R70w controlled by the ECU? Might be hard to run a 2.3T with that, unless there's a compatible ECU I'm not aware of.
I'm not entirely opposed to robbing a V8 AWD Explorer of its goods, provided I find one cheap enough. It seems the crap I have laying around won't work at all anyways. I should probably work on putting that all together and sell it off.

Foolee

08-30-2011, 04:23 AM

You could get a aftermarket controller to run the trans. Using a f-150 4x4 C4 trans with the awd Explorer case might be a Better idea. I got talking v8's and forgot about the 2.3t lol.

AirBender

08-30-2011, 07:45 AM

and there are 2.3 c4 trannies around....soooo....

SpeedNinja

08-30-2011, 11:37 AM

I suppose using a separate trans controller would work.

I was looking to get a C4 previously for the wagon, but the bellhousings are massive dollars, let alone the entire trans, for me right now and I had much cheaper routes to go with just a RWD set-up. For this AWD stuff it might be the way to go.

I got talking v8's and forgot about the 2.3t lol.
Haha! It happens to all of us man. And it's still not out of the question. I just wanted to use the 2.3T and a T5 because I have them sitting here. If it's too much money and work, and Explorer might be sacrificed.

EDIT: Just had this link given to me, and I like it.
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0905_1932_ford_coupe/viewall.html

Foolee

08-30-2011, 02:25 PM

Cool I love it, they guy did quite the job. I have always loved 32-34 fords :).

Ryan

08-30-2011, 03:29 PM

The Merkur XR guys are making AWD set ups. Have you looked to see what they are doing?

SpeedNinja

08-30-2011, 11:54 PM

The other thing I love about that car, it doesn't have a SBC in it.

The Merkur XR guys are making AWD set ups. Have you looked to see what they are doing?
No, I haven't. I actually haven't been on any of those websites at all... Which site(s) did you see this on?

Foolee

08-31-2011, 01:07 AM

AWD XR4Ti sweet deal.

Ryan

08-31-2011, 09:23 AM

Yeah.

The first I heard of it was in my Volvo 16v yahoo group. It wasn't something that applied to me, so I didn't pay much attention. I just assumed they were all AWD.

I think what people are doing is taking the drivetrain from the Eruopean Ford Sierra. I am not 100% on that though. I will ask today and see if they can post a link to a project log or something. I have googled it and it hasn't turn up too much. I did however see a wholesale parts place that has parts for an AWD XR4Ti. Maybe they were made in limited numbers? Who knows? Maybe someone who knows them better will chime in. I will keep looking.

Good luck,
-Ryan

SpeedNinja

08-31-2011, 02:27 PM

Haha! I'm in that Yahoo! group, and got a few email notifications on it today. I have a few people in the UK, SA, NZ and AU that I could ask to keep an eye out for me once I have some more details.
What was the name of that wholesale place?

AWD XR4Ti sweet deal.
Yeah, I'm about to say eff it to this project and just go find one of those. :rockwoot:

Ryan

08-31-2011, 02:48 PM

Slow down guys. Turns out it was an AWD Ford Seirra 4X4. The weak point of the car? The Xfer case. It used a V6 or a 2.0 Cosworth (as far as I know, the Cosworth wasn't Lima based it was Escort based).

Sorry. I was mistaken.

Merk23's response was unclear though. He sounded like the ones he was talking about were Lima's

AWD Merkur XR4Ti

Me: Off topic. Sorry. I can't find anything about this. Was the Merkur AWD or
not? If not, I know there are a few running around. Could someone point me to
a build thread?

Re: AWD Merkur XR4Ti

Merk 23: There were some in Europe, Africa and South America. Jack Roush had several of them. He raced them. There are videos of them out there. I did have six or so
videos of them, but I lost them when my house burned down. Tim Roman in
Minneapolis is the only one state side that I know of that had/has one.

-Merk 23 of the 16v 2300 Yahoo! group. Great guy, amazing amount of knowledge.

Youtube??? Maybe?

I will ask him to clarify later.

SpeedNinja

08-31-2011, 10:56 PM

I was looking at the overseas Merkur stuff that used the MT75 trans and I believe they used the "Pinto engine", which is the Lima motor that we've got here, with that transmission. I haven't found out if the MT75 has a removable bellhousing or not, or if the t-case bolts on to the gearbox of the version that would bolt to the "Pinto engine". I also haven't verified that the "Pinto engine" was for sure used with this transmission and not just with the other two (Type 9 and I forget the other). I've got some info now. I've just gotta find a few more details to see if it's worth sourcing the bits. If there's any adapting, I don't think it'll be worth someone in the US to put one together given all the other options in this thread.

I did read that the t-case is the weak link, and that doesn't surprise me. It's always the weak link. It just depends on how weak it is. I'm not looking to make massive amounts of power on a very mild 2.3T build. If it can't handle that, yeah... that might kill the idea as finding parts and replacements here in the States would be rough. Maybe a re-engineering of the internals would be needed, if possible.

EDIT: I posted a thread on a drumming forum to see if some of the foreign guys can dig up some details. Hopefully that turns up something.

Ron83ranger

09-01-2011, 10:08 AM

this sounds like a cool idea but instead of trying to find a factory t-case, why not make one up. i have a friend that has a massive mud truck on 50+ tires with rockwells and a 800hp big block ford. he uses a divorced style but the case is open and just has a chain drive to the front axle output. just like a t-case with no ranges or anything, just an input and outputs. very simple in design and actuation. he has never had a problem with it either.

SpeedNinja

09-01-2011, 11:16 AM

That is a possibility. I was trying to come up with something that is more friendly to someone who would be afraid to try something like that, but if that scares them away then the front crossmember/steering/driveline would scare them away more. I'll look into it. Might be able to go gear driven instead of chain driven. Also depends on what room and structure I have to mount all this in a unibody, and what will have to be added.
I thought about relocating the turbo and using the Dana300 to do something similar. It would depend on how much room is left for the exhaust... unless the t-case could be spun around to the other side...

The Yahoo group said this about their "pinto engine", so I asked how close it was to ours...
Its whats called a pinto motor here looks the same as you Lima but its shorter and goes from 1300 to 2000 cc and has issues like the cam only comes out the back of the SOHC head
If it's not a match then the only way the MT75 would be a worthwhile venture would be to use a Cosworth spec Escort motor. Actually, I believe a SMF Windsor will also work with this trans. For me, that's too much importing and part hunting, and will cost me too much. But it is an option if someone else is interested.

Ryan

09-01-2011, 11:19 AM

Try talking to John Vanlandingham at 206-431-9696.
He probably has the parts available.
jvab imports.
-Bill from Yahoo! 26v 2300 group

That was the site I stumbled apon the other day.

Its whats called a pinto motor here looks the same as you Lima but its
shorter and goes from 1300 to 2000 cc and has issues like the cam only comes
out the back of the SOHC head
The cosworth version was what was used in British and Australian touring
cars beating V8's hands down but had diff issues till a smart guy in
Australia worked out how to put 9" internals into the IRS diff head (
possibly work the same for your Merkur differntials)
If your interested in this conversion it was done by Dick Johnson Racing in
australia
And the best of the Sierra touring cars where the Texico Sierra's another
google will find lots on them and there cosworth power plants

Heres a few of them on our local version of ebay
I dont know if we are allowed to post links on here but its not spam
If you look up sierra in the uk on ebay they are a dime a dozen but due to there roads being salted in the winter are normaly full of more bog (Body filler)
thank Tina Turner

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ford/auction-401208819.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ford/auction-400058584.htm

and if you want the South African version there Auction site there is called Gumtree

Shane Strode-Penny
New Zealand-Shane Strode-Penny 16v 2300 Yahoo! group

And I have beat this to death now. I think the Lima and the pinto engine are interchangable, if not, I'm sure you could use a Seirra as a doner car for the Xfer case and the FWD portion of the set up. it would be almost bolt in for the Merkur.

Wonder if I could adapt it to a Ranger?!?! ha ha ha ah

SpeedNinja

09-01-2011, 06:36 PM

HAHA!!! Nah, with a Ranger, I'd start with a 4x4 truck and ease as many complications as possible.

The Merkur MT75 is not worth the effort with our 2.3L Lima. Just got this reply in the Yahoo! group...
>If I am not mistaken, I believe a pinto 2.0 can be swapped for a 2.3 lima?

If you replace it in it's entirety, sure. But the same could be said for swapping out a 2.3 with a GM LS crate engine.

Lots of bad info in this conversation - I'll try to correct a couple things off the top of my head...

1) No Merkur ever came with AWD. None. Ever.
2) Sierras were available in Europe and elsewhere across the globe (except North America), with AWD, but never behind a Lima 2.3.
3) The Roush "Merkurs" were all RWD and not really Merkurs at all. They were purpose-built race cars with a Merkur roof and badge.

Brad

It would be super cool if you were using the Cosworth Escort motor though.

I'm back to hunting down other options. Gonna go back to working with the original T5 idea to see if I can make that work, since I have one. Should buy me some more time to figure out the front end.

AJ_Fritz

09-01-2011, 06:43 PM

you need the transaxle out of a gmc cyclone or typhoon.

SpeedNinja

09-01-2011, 07:09 PM

All Syclones and Typhoons had a 700R4 (4L60) 4-speed automatic transmission. A Borg Warner all wheel drive transfer case split torque with 35% forward and 65% to the rear wheels.
Some wiki stuff here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic#700R4_.2F_4L60_.2F_4L60E_.2F_4L65E

The problem with that is it's still an automatic, which I didn't really want to do. If I do have to do the automatic route, I'll use a C4 or A4LD.
That's not to say that someone else couldn't do it though.

Ryan

09-01-2011, 07:22 PM

Glad that got cleared up. Could you use the T5 in a set up like evo has? that system is pretty sweet. Transaxel in the rear with another drive shaft to the front diff.

SpeedNinja

09-01-2011, 09:27 PM

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the Evo stuff. Got any places I could start looking? I don't think I could mutate this T5 into any sort of transaxle, but I could get some other ideas off the Evo.

EDIT: From what I can find on the Evo looks to be all FWD based stuff, which can't be done with a T5. I read that Mitsubishi rotated the engine and transaxle 90 degrees at some point, but I can't find any pictures that help me see exactly what they changed. At any rate, I don't think the T5 would be capable of this, but there might be a Ford/Mazda FWD transaxle that could be used to do this with the Lima motor. This type of swap is a possibility as well. I haven't researched it much yet as I'd like to keep the motor running North to South.

fordnut71

09-01-2011, 10:46 PM

well i know the 4x4 escape uses a transaxle that turns the read drive shaft also. there is no transfercase in there. the 2wd escape uses the same tranny as the contor

SpeedNinja

09-02-2011, 12:09 AM

Looks like that would be the 6F35, which Ford and GM co-built... interesting. It was mated to the 2.5L and 3.0L Duratec engines, for Ford. Would be worthwhile if I had a complete Escape to scavenge... or any of the other FWD FoMoCo platforms since 2007.

Ryan

09-04-2011, 07:55 PM

You will have to accept my apologies as I am just tossing out ideas hoping something will stick. I am pretty sure the evo or sti (one of the two) has a standard RWD setup with like a second differential in the rear axel that had a drive shaft going to the front. This is probably useless idea unless you had the front ant read differentials from that car. And them it would be a pain in the ass to fit.

Interesting on the escape! Probably how they do they AWD fusion and SHO.

gumby

09-04-2011, 08:53 PM

what is the mating pattern on the Sy/Ty T-case? Could it be adapted to the 4x4 T5(spline count, shaft size, bolt pattern), also what side does it drop on?

AWD behind a T5 is an often brought up discussion, and AFAIK has not been done on any forums I am a member of. There was rumor of an adapter to run the 6bolt fullsize trans in front of the Ranger 5bolt T-case(V8 swaps and the like). If the adapter worked in reverse, you could run the Explorer AWD case behind a Ranger M5. Not sure if/how the Ranger 5bolt pattern matches up to the 4x4 versions of the T5...

The Escape trans uses a form of PTO to drive the rear differential. Interesting setup, and I had thoughts of doing a East/West mount in a Ranger project once in order to get AWD.

gumby

09-04-2011, 09:05 PM

And one more thought, going all the way back to pg1 of this thread.

Bell adapter + M5r2 + Explorer AWD case
The twist would be to use the r2 from a SuperCoupe rather than a F150. The shifter is at the back. I know you can take any r1 and swap in the 4x4 output shaft and tailhousing to convert to 4wd(keep that in mind all you guys searching for 2.3L 4wd M5's) not sure if the same would hold true for the r2, but it might be worth some research.

SpeedNinja

09-06-2011, 08:56 PM

Hmmm... there's a few more ideas there. I'll have to look into them... lots of school stuff this week. :(

Cutlass327

09-07-2011, 01:48 AM

I've seen mention of different t-cases here, like the D300, and a few others. Even that home-made setup.. Remember, ANY AWD design needs to have a differential or some other sort of coupling in the t-case to allow you to turn and not tear the t-case apart.

Jeeps did have a AWD version, the Quadratrac, and it had a "emergency" setting where you turned a vacuum switch and it engaged the t-case into a part time 4wd case. Jeep also used later on the New Process NP242. which was more reliable without the vacuum operation:

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np242.htm

SpeedNinja

09-07-2011, 11:47 PM

Good to know. Thanks man.

You will have to accept my apologies as I am just tossing out ideas hoping something will stick. I am pretty sure the evo or sti (one of the two) has a standard RWD setup with like a second differential in the rear axel that had a drive shaft going to the front. This is probably useless idea unless you had the front ant read differentials from that car. And them it would be a pain in the ass to fit.

Interesting on the escape! Probably how they do they AWD fusion and SHO.
Checking out the STI... I think that's the one you were referring to. Looks interesting. I'll have to try and look at one in person. Looks neat.
http://modified.automotive.com/138266/modp-1007-2005-subaru-impreza-wrx-sti/photos5-0.html
http://zeocars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2011-Subaru-WRX-STI-chassis-18.jpg
It would take a lot of work to fit in a Mustang, a lot. Would be cool as hell though. These cars are my favorite AWD cars. Hmmmmm.....

Ron83ranger

09-08-2011, 12:21 AM

the Evo and Sti are generally front wheel drive cars with an out put for the rear diff. the sti trans would be the only one of the two that would even come close to the setup your after. but you would have to shove the motor ahead of the front axle center line as the front drive axles come out the sides of the trans. the Evo is just a front wheel drive trans with a center diff and a rear drive output. same as an Eclipse GSX but opposite side.

now on a different note, if money didnt matter, you could try to adapt the Nissan Skyline RB26DETT trans setup to our motor. it is a RWD 6 speed trans with an adjustable internal transfer case and the oil pan houses the front diff assembly. very strong but prob very expensive.
they may be available as people are putting the motor in 240sx bodies but are using the RB25DET trans which is only a 5 speed RWD.