Stock 2.3L tranny.... how strong?

[Elusive]

What kind of power will the stock 2.3L Ranger tranny take? I was basically planning on a t-5 swap for my build, but after reading through the clutch posts here, it sounds like the stocker can hold it's own pretty well. Am I interpreting correctly or blowin' smoke? That'd save me some headaches for sure.

I know the clutch is worthless... just wondering about the trans.

[nagelandy55]

The stock trans will hold over 400whp, Jess showed us all.

[LSV8]

"1985, Ford introduced the World Class T-5 installed with 3.35 first gear set with a .68od behind the 5.OL. T-5 was also used behind both the standard 2.3L with a 3.97 first gearset and the SVO Mustang. SVO received a one year only 3.50 first gear ratio as the 3.97 gear ratio was too low for the added power of the turbo charged 2.3L. No longer were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears spinning on a solid output shaft as needle bearings were installed under each gear to reduce drag. The lower counter gears saw tapered bearings to replace the bronze thrust washer. All main shaft synchro's were fiber lined steel rings to improve rings friction surface while 5th remains bronze. By improving the surface friction the synchro slows the gear faster making for smoother shifts. The design remained the same until 1989. Torque rating remained the same at 265ft/lbs."

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

This article explains the Borg Warner T5. Elusive is questioning the strength of the Mazda M5OD from the Ranger.

Elusive, I am unsure of exactly how much power the M5 is able to handle... but I will say the T5 swap is worth every minute and every penny you put into it. Aside from the amount of power it can hold, the T5 a much better FEELING trans. Shifting is a 10 fold improvement over the M5, even the M5 with a Hurst short throw was a joke. Additionally, the gearing difference is much more suited to a turbo motor... first gear is much more usable with the T5.

[D94R]

Anyone know how they come up with the ratings for the transmissions? We know of guys who put more than 265ft/lbs through their T5, hell most mild modded 2.3T would do that, and there are alot of guys at that level and still running the M5.

If the tranny were locked down to a static object, then they applied torque to the input or output shaft till something broke, I could understand 265ft/lbs. But if you're already rolling that 265ft/lbs won't have nearly the affect; as the torque is eased into.

[nagelandy55]

Ya who knows how they rate these things. All i know is jess is putting over 400ft/lb's of torque through his M5 with no issues so far. I've had my M5 for a couple years now with no issues. I would however like to go to a T5 some day as i have all the parts for a change over but i'll use up my M5 clutch before i do that.

[Jesshwarren]

A M5 speed will go 11's. I broke 3rd gear in one once and it was from side stepping the clutch with a solid hub disk.

[flyin]

Dont forget to take into account the load on the trans. Our trucks are pretty light and most of the time they are on street tires. If Jess hasn't broken it on slicks the trans will probably survive most motors on street tires.

[Elusive]

Yeah I was asking about the M5OD strength, not the T5 (sorry!).

I had an M5OD-R2 setup in my 5.0 turbo. It never gave me a problem. This was even with 4wd and 33" MT's on it. I never liked how it shifted either though... It always seemed to have a "notchy" feel on shifts. Are the M5OD and M5OD-R2 one in the same, or are they different?

I guess my biggest question is: is it worth it to swap out to a T5 when I have the motor out to change pistons and whatnot? I will have to buy a new higher friction clutch anyway, so I figure I might as well change it all at once and get it done if it IS worth it. I don't want to end up buying yet another clutch (sticks in my mind the T5 and M5OD run two different diameter discs, correct?) if I can just change it in the first place.

Lastly, is the shifter location similar? Drive shaft length similar? Pretty sure the hydraulic lines aren't an issue. How about speedo hookup?

[nagelandy55]

You are correct, the center section between the two discs will be different. The T5 has a lower spline count on the input shaft than the M5OD.
I've read drive shafts are the same lenght. Shifter will be moved back i think about 6 inches, so you'd have to have buckets.
If you get a 95-97 ranger its a bit of a prick dealing with the speedo but it could be worse. The 98+ rangers get their speed signal off the rear diff where as 95-97 rangers get it off the speed sensor in the tranny. So what i'm planning on doing is swapping the 98 electronics that deal with the speed signal into my 06. Haveing the speed off the rear diff just seems nice and simple to me.

[Jesshwarren]

I found the Mazda 5 speed will shift 5X better when I run lucas in it.

[Redneck86]

Really? Mine shifts like ass even with the hurst on it. What type of lucas oil are you using?

[Elusive]

The one in my 5.0 had good days and bad days. Sometimes it'd fly thru the gears... sometimes it'd be hard as hell to even get into 1st/2nd. I never tried running Lucas fluid in it though.

I was really close to getting a T-5 until I realized the speedo wasn't a plug-and-play deal. Then after seeing rigs with 400+hp/tq on the stock tranny, I thought I might as well try it. I guess the worst that can happen is it snaps and I end up with a T5 anyway.

[Jesshwarren]

This right here http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=49&catid=7&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Lucas%20Synthetic%20Oil%20Stabilizer

the non synthetic works good also. http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=7&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Lucas%20Heavy%20Duty%20Oil%20Stabilizer

[neongreen]

The T5 has a lower spline count on the input shaft than the M5OD.

True. 10 spline vs 23.

I've read drive shafts are the same lenght.

Also true. Exactly the same length.

Shifter will be moved back i think about 6 inches, so you'd have to have buckets.

It's actually 9 inches exactly. I run a bench seat in my 88, but i had to build a custom shifter and it's really close to the seat.

I replaced my M5OD last year with a T5 because the M5OD was slowly dying. I love the feel of the T5. It can be a bit of a pain to shift when it's really cold, but the feel is so much more solid and positive.

[ri06667]

Where are you guys coming across these t5s with hydraluc bellhousings? I am aware that if I manage to find a 2.3t tbird in the junk yard I could use it.. But thats exremely unlikely around here. What year of pinto could I use and are there any other suggestions?

[fordnut71]

the hydro bell is from the 87-88 turbo coupe. you wont find a pinto with a t-5. never had it.

[turboparton]

I found the Mazda 5 speed will shift 5X better when I run lucas in it.

What kind of trans fluid are you using with the lucas additive, because I would love to get some of the notchiness out of my trany???

[muddpawz]

jess, what ratio do you run the lucas in the tranny? strait lucas, or trans fluid, and a quart of lucas....?? I pulled mine last night and wana add it while ive got it out.

[ri06667]

i 2nd this question.. I just dropped in some synthetic atf, dont recall which kind but it shifts so much worse than it did... very curious

[Jesshwarren]

i 2nd this question.. I just dropped in some synthetic atf, dont recall which kind but it shifts so much worse than it did... very curious

Strait synthetic will be to thin and will shift worse. Add a quart of synthetic Lucas ;)
jess, what ratio do you run the lucas in the tranny? strait lucas, or trans fluid, and a quart of lucas....?? I pulled mine last night and wana add it while ive got it out.

I run 1qt of lucas, you don't want the fluid to get to thick.

I know I can row the gears like it's a t5. It don't grind at all.

[turboparton]

I know I can row the gears like it's a t5. It don't grind at all.

If you get results like that we need to know exact details, rate of pour, temp conditions when changed, etc...:D

Seriously though, you use an sythetic ATF with one QT of syn Lucus. I assume the 1 QT of lucus offsets a qrt of the ATF fluid. I figure I'll do this when I do my clutch.

[Jesshwarren]

If you get results like that we need to know exact details, rate of pour, temp conditions when changed, etc...:D

Seriously though, you use an sythetic ATF with one QT of syn Lucus. I assume the 1 QT of lucus offsets a qrt of the ATF fluid. I figure I'll do this when I do my clutch.

Yes it offsets a qrt of ATF. You could go up to 1.5 qrts of Lucas.

[birdmanslopy]

Dont forget to take into account the load on the trans. Our trucks are pretty light and most of the time they are on street tires. If Jess hasn't broken it on slicks the trans will probably survive most motors on street tires.

actually correct me if im wrong but ive read before that slicks are drivetrain savers at the track because they wrinkle and preload the drivetrain before anything is stressed unlike drag radials where you spin them then grip and strain the transmission rear end exc.
ill try to find the article somewhere around here, no pun calling ya out but i wanna know if it was true or what people thought on the subject.

[fordnut71]

a radial tire will put less load on the drive line if its spinning but its putting more rpm on the drive line. the reason for rev limiters. a slick will put a constant load on the drive line when moving , but the 1st hit is a shock to the line. its y you see most axles an u joints breaks on the starting line. the slick is made to wrinkle up to put more of the tires foot print on the pavement, even todays modern drag radial is being able to flex the side wall to get more tire on the ground.

[birdmanslopy]

a radial tire will put less load on the drive line if its spinning but its putting more rpm on the drive line. the reason for rev limiters. a slick will put a constant load on the drive line when moving , but the 1st hit is a shock to the line. its y you see most axles an u joints breaks on the starting line. the slick is made to wrinkle up to put more of the tires foot print on the pavement, even todays modern drag radial is being able to flex the side wall to get more tire on the ground.

so then what i said is correct? because thinking about it if your an automatic and your foot brake at the light you would be locking everything down (which i believe wouldnt be a shock), then when you go the wrinkle takes the shock (if theres any) then you wheelie out 60ft :D

[flyin]

I am just speaking from my experience with a 351/T5 mustang that a friend had. The stock t5's kind of stayed together on street tires. With slicks he broke a couple pretty quick. And yes he was very rough on it.

[more_boost]

sorry to beat a dead horse ... but i want to help my tranny shift better too... i bought the lucas synthetic but when i got home i had forgotten to see if yall used regular atf or syn atf ? and if i remember correctly my tranny doesnt hold much more then two or so quarts ... so is it almost a 1:1 ratio of lucas to atf ???

[Jesshwarren]

sorry to beat a dead horse ... but i want to help my tranny shift better too... i bought the lucas synthetic but when i got home i had forgotten to see if yall used regular atf or syn atf ? and if i remember correctly my tranny doesnt hold much more then two or so quarts ... so is it almost a 1:1 ratio of lucas to atf ???


I run the non syn ATF so you should be ok. Yea it is about 1-1 ratio.

[splatranger95]

Im running royal purple synthetic. I have never gotten to drive my truck yet though. So i have no idea how it shifts. I just assumed everythig royal purple is awesome so the atf must be too. Should I change that?

[vanmor]

Jess,

I'm still not clear. You are using non-syn tranny ATF fluid and non-syn Lucas stabilizer in the M5OD ?

[Bryan22]

i don't remember what year they changed some of the internals on the the m5od, but it is NOT reccommended to run synthetic trans fluid in the older ones. i think it was around 98. when you run the mercon V in the older m5's they actually shift alot worse. better off sticking with the older mercon III-IV.